diatomaceous earth kidney damage

Going by my experiences so far Im not convinced that herbs alone are going to get rid of my parasite problem and Dr's lab tests have not picked any up for a Dr's prescription is not an option either. Using chemical pesticides to remove them may not be the best option. Bennett DC, Yee A, Rhee YJ, Cheng KM. Also the fact that I feel very sick and have thrown up plus I have really dark circles around my eyes that have appeared overnight make me think that something is wrong. Before you continue, you may want to watch this video of Home Remedies TV on YouTube that gives a quick review. Safe to increase dosage when de-worming. Kidney ultrasound will demonstrate larger kidney stones or obstruction if present. Four weeks after the intake of diatomaceous earth was stopped, serum cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and triglycerides still remained low. Duncan received from the Australian College of Natural Medicine his advanced Diploma in Naturopathy. Depends on the type and the reason for the stones. Diatomaceous earth is made of silicon dioxide, It's also known as amorphous silica and silica powder among other names. There are a number of ways to use diatomaceous earth. Though it was previously unclear just how much silicon was absorbed from the human diet, a 2002 study found that silicon was able to be absorbed from solid foods. Food grade diatomaceous earth is not poisonous to humans and many food manufacturers use it in food preparation. View abstract. Horsetail is known to block the absorption of thiamine, and lead to thiamine Its sold as a soil additive and helps soil retain water and nutrients, while allowing for more oxygen circulation and killing off parasites. rinse well. Does e blood really start to flow to the stomach region after eating meals. 2001;37(2):153-164. Some manufacturers of diatomaceous earth have claimed that it can help remove toxins from the body. Iron comes from dirt and can cause serious organ problems in too high an amount. Continued inhalation of diatomaceous earth has been tied to several diseases, including lung cancer, silicosis, and nonmalignant respiratory diseases. Internal Amounts: Diatomaceous earth is available in two different grades: food-grade (meant to taken internally by humans) and non-food-grade (used in industrial practices). J Hazard Mater. By maintaining or restoring the elasticity of lung tissues, silica reduces inflammation in bronchitis. View abstract. EDIT - tried some parsley tea and the pain is worse again, now all over my back - a little bit concerned. This is programmed to energize you throughout the day. In general, make sure to consume plenty of water with diatomaceous earth and stay hydrated. Silica delays the aging process of the tissues; in younger people, the tissues typically contain more silica than in older people. If you have queries, they also included a lifetime email support. I have felt better physically, and so have they. Effect of diatomaceous earth on parasite load, egg production, and egg quality of free-range organic laying hens. If diatomaceous earth is inhaled, it may irritate the nasal passages. It consists of approximately 85 percent amorphous silicon dioxide the prized In fact bamboo is 7 times higher in silica than horsetail grass, but I recommend this because it is a much safer silica source. Also, got any free pdf online herbal books that i can study, or even medical books that are free online and of high quality. J Cutan Pathol. That said, theres some evidence suggesting that inhaling a very small amount of crystalline silicon over time (the kind used in small quantities in some diatomaceous earth products, especially pesticides) might contribute to silicosis, chronic bronchitis, and other lung and respiratory problems in a small percentage of cases. Thanks for the info, there were several websites stating the dangers of DE a few months ago, haven't looked lately. There isn't enough reliable information available to know if diatomaceous earth is safe or what the side effects might be. What are some good ways to promote kidney health? Please note it says toxic levels can cause irreversible kidney damage. Afterward, you will want to read the rest of the article for a more comprehensive review of The Kidney Disease Solution. Within six months during her treatment, she moved from stage-4 to stage-1. Diatomaceous Earth And Chronic Kidney Disease. The Kidney Disease Solution approaches each treatment holistically. Helps maintain lung tissue health. Diatomaceous Earth And Chronic Kidney Disease Kidney Disease Solution Kidney Disease Solution is an all-in-one program designed to improve renal health as well as Since one of the main reasons for the degrade in health is stress, they also offer guided meditation exercises to help with dealing with anxiety. Approximately 37 million Americans have Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD). It starts out softly then rises then subsides, not acute like classic gout. Put a small amount in your palm, rub your hands together and start application at the head of your pet avoiding eyes and nose. Join our mailing list to receive the latestdeals and news. In addition, silica can assist with skin problems such as rashes, acne, eczema, insect bites and also injuries including frostbite and burns. Thank you John, but I never implied that the author was recommending those high dosages. They include a good deal of different manuals and readings. Those fed diatomaceous earth were also significantly heavier in weight, laid more eggs and consumed more feed than hens fed the control diet plus their eggs had larger yolks and therefore were more concentrated with nutrients. In fact, it's used as an industrial-grade water filter. Turning the volume down on heavy metals using tuned diatomite. Our liver, kidneys, and digestive system do that for us every day. Top answers from doctors based on your search: Created for people with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone. O'Keeffe has a Master of Arts in journalism from the National University of Ireland, Galway and a Bachelor of Science in microbiology from University College Cork. The silicon content of the foods consumed was significantly correlated with urinary silicon excretion a mean of 41% of the ingested silicon was excreted in the urine of the study's participants. Note that the numbers in parentheses (1, 2, etc.) Diatomaceous Earth And Chronic Kidney Disease The Kidney Disease Solution is an all-in-one three-phase program designed to help individuals reverse kidney damage and improve The silica in DE becomes crystalline when it is exposed to extreme heat through volcanic activity or commercial manufacturing. Silica works similarly to antioxidantsfound in high-antioxidant foodsbecause it retains its traits as a stable particle even while continuously suspended in a liquid medium, allowing it to fight free radical damage. It also has the ability to improve the bodys use of calcium, support bone mineralization, protect joints and fight effects of aging. The Kidney Disease Solution is an all-in-one three-phase program designed to help individuals reverse kidney damage and improve their kidney function while soothing the pain from the symptoms. It also helps preserve foods naturally (such as grains or legumes, which can grow mold) and helps replenish soil so more plants and food can be grown for livestock and human consumption. Apply diatomaceous earth powder where needed in your home, yard, carpets, car, etc. We have been getting reports that DE is helping people lose weight. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. It ca prevent you from going through transplants or dialysis while helping reverse the kidney disease stage youre in. This causes a build-up of calcium-phosphate deposits in the blood vessels, which can over an extended period lead to arteriosclerotic heart disease and premature death. If you cannot do the DE then the next best choices would be neem leaf with a little yucca root to aid in penetration. Note that the numbers in parentheses (1, 2, etc.) "It can also be from alcohol intake, hemolytic anemia, certain medications, hypothyroidism, etc." This is too large to pass. View abstract. , Your email address will not be published. Heres how to use diatomaceous earth in your home: Is diatomaceous earth safe? A study published in the Journal of Applied and Environmental Microbiology found that diatomaceous earth helps kill viruses and purify liquids. People make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about various natural substances supposedly killing cancer and there is no clinical evidence in support of any of it. Martin, KR. Its that easy! Yes. Excess vitamin C in the body also breaks down in to oxalic acid. Re: Diatomaceous earth/silica: WARNING I don't believe that this is true. Feel better for throwing up and the kidney pain isnt as bad now but my urine was quite dark this morning. Im at a lose as to what to do. Diatomaceous earth has been used for years as a safer pesticide option. I just started taking Diatamaceous Earth for a week, one TBSP a day. Nattrass C, Horwell CJ, Damby DE, Kermanizadeh A, Brown DM, Stone V. The global variability of diatomaceous earth toxicity: a physicochemical and in vitro investigation. But the enzyme is destroyed upon drying or cooking. http://www.grandpasdiatomaceousearth.com A person who is exposed to food grade diatomaceous earth dust should move to an area of fresh air. 2005 - 2023 WebMD LLC. Tarnish can be removed by just rubbing with dry DE. Silica can prevent or clear up diarrhea and its opposite, constipation. This is untrue. But this still leaves a number of potential causes so it could take a lot of testing to narrow it down further. I really do not know of any. Silica works with other antioxidants to prevent premature aging and top reserve youthfulness. If you want a money-back guarantee, make sure to purchase directly from their online store and not from third-party sellers. Heres a quick summary of the three phases. Fit a t-shirt or shower cap (cut a small hole in the top to place DE in) over the hair, so that the collar seals around the scalp . 100% Pure Fresh Water Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Amorphous Non-Crystalline Silica The statements are for informational purposes only and are not meant to replace services or recommendations of a physician or qualified health care practitioner. Silica is necessary the formation of collagen for bones and connective tissue. Try not to miss days. I however read some scary things, What's the science behind it damaging the kidneys? A number of possible mechanisms for how this works have been suggested, including the possibility that silicon helps with synthesis of collagen (used to form joints, the lining of the digestive tract and connective tissue) and within the mineralization of bones. Reapplication is recommended every seven to ten days for a month to eliminate all fleas. Video chat with a U.S. board-certified doctor 24/7 in less than one minute for common issues such as: colds and coughs, stomach symptoms, bladder infections, rashes, and more. Silica is an important component of human ligaments, cartilage and musculature and is also abundant in plants since it facilitates their growth and development. For potential or actual medical emergencies, immediately call 911 or your local emergency service. The reason I said "in most cases" above is because blood gets diverted away from the stomach even if food is present in certain cases such as emergency situations since this requires skeletal muscles to have more of a priority over the blood than the stomach. Please check with the appropriate physician regarding health questions and concerns. I still don't believe it till confirmed. Use as a soft-scrub cleanser by mixing with dish soap or just plain water to make a paste. Erythritol is now one of the most popular natural zero-calorie sweeteners available. Connect with a U.S. board-certified doctor by text or video anytime, anywhere. Silica can stimulate cell metabolism and division. This happened to me also w/ DE but only in the beginning. Never heard such large dosages! This inexpensive nutritional supplement boosts immunity and joint health. It works best for people who have limited access or alternatives to treat their kidney disease. Poult Sci. That means you can have the full scope of the digital item. These dangers are more likely to occur with repeated exposures to the substance. Why Doesn't the U.S. Have at-Home Tests for the Flu? Its also recommended that you keep diatomaceous earth away from babies and small children who might be more sensitive to diatomaceous earths effects and can react to it by experiencing irritations. For example, diatomaceous earth for fleas is extremely effective for your pets but diatomaceous earth has many uses beyond that, with an astounding ability to kill pests and harmful substances in your home and purify liquids. I am always dehydrated due to my kidney issues so dont know if this is a bad combination with the silica in the DE as cant find any info on the web. Take about one teaspoon of food-grade diatomaceous earth with liquid once a day. What are some good Diatomaceous Earth has many uses including as a health supplement, an anti-caking agent, a natural pesticide in gardens, grain storage, and more. You can access the materials on any device. Human: Silica can help avoiding or alleviating Alzheimers disease by preventing the body from absorbing aluminum and may flush out aluminum from the tissues. The results of the study showed that diatomaceous earthhelped absorb up to 80 percent of the virusespresent, which were all present in the liquid, even after filtration. View abstract. Amorphous vs. Crystalline Silica 2nd week1 heaping tsp daily Thereafter1 tablespoon daily DRINK PLENTY OF FLUID I still want to know where that other info about the dosage came from??!! The whole collection is available from their official website. This kidney pain and frothy urine always go together which is why I was thinking that I may have damaged my kidneys more. The milk kefir helps a bit but only goes so far. Split the dosage into two parts taken in the morning and one at night. Am 65 with high blood pressure / herniated discs. The presence of sufficient silica in the intestines will reduce inflammation of the intestinal tract. This can lead to problems in people with already impaired blood perfusion such as diabetics, or those with kidney disease, Raynaud's or heart disease. Silver Polish mix De with water to form a paste. Research suggests that using diatomaceous earth can help eliminate bed bugs, house dust mites, cockroaches, ants (such as ant hills), fleas and other pests within your home without the use for harsh chemicals. They have also co-founded a clinic in Melbourne and have more than 13 health therapists to help patients live healthy lives. Despite DE's efficacy at treating water, there is no evidence that implies these properties have any significant impact on your digestive system. The following alleged benefits are often listed on vitamin and supplement websites. Diatomaceous earth is very good at controlling lice and a great alternative to chemical treatments. Theres no unpleasant taste. It generally takes 72 hours for dehydration to occur. These dangers If recurrent to see a nephrologist for special testing and trea A stone up to 5mm in size will predictably pass, with variable degrees of pain. Diatomaceous earth is available in two different grades: Some common products that contain diatomaceous earth include dusts,powders (or a powder duster) and pressurized liquids that are used on the outside of buildings, on farms, in gardens, and in human and pet foods. Silica can help prevent kidney stones and heal infections of the urinary tract. The best way to fight stones is to understand your metabolism. Other possible uses for diatomaceous earth include: Keep in mind, supplement manufacturers claim that diatomaceous earth has many health benefits, but many have not yet been proven in studies.. Is there any way they can test to find out the cause of my gout symptom? Therefore, consuming diatomaceous earth most likely has no significant impact on bone health.. It consists of microscopic skeletons of algae known as diatoms that have fossilized over Guarana: Fat-Burning, Energy-Boosting Powerhouse or Dangerous Supplement? Diatomaceous earth is potentially able to reduce blood cholesterol and positively affect lipid metabolism in humans. The material is hygroscopic so it also plays a role in keeping foods dry. Take a look at the ingredients label of just about any energy-boosting Swiss chard is one of the most impressive and nutrient-dense vegetables out Research suggests that N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) the supplement form of the 15 Fermented Foods for a Healthy Gut and Overall Health, 9 Proven Black Seed Oil Benefits that Boost Your Health, L-Glutamine Benefits Leaky Gut & Metabolism, Daniel Fast: Benefits for Your Spiritual, Emotional and Physical Health, Chia Seeds Benefits: The Omega-3, Protein-Packed Superfood, Apple Cider Vinegar Benefits for Weight Loss, Skin Health, Cholesterol & More. Its also inexpensive, simple to use and much safer than many store-bought detox products or plans. Foods high in vitamin C are also a good choice such as papaya, kiwis and berries. People can get liver failure or kidney problems from just one or two overdoses of pain relievers such as Tylenol. This may be helpful with your recovery, and in addition, it can help you to practice mindfulness. The program includes a collection of cookbooks and other ebooks that have specific instructions regarding condition evaluation, test result interpretation, in addition to a guide on how to structure a treatment and diet program that fits with your condition. Even though The Kidney Disease Solution cannot guarantee to cure you, their 60-day money-back guarantee should be enticing enough that you give it a try. The Kidney Disease Solution is more than just 1 ebook. It also seems to have anti-aging effects by helping with the use of calcium in forming strong bones, nails and teeth. Another strategy is to take it daily for a few weeks at a time as you track symptoms, stopping and starting again throughout the year. Stimulates cell metabolism and cell formation I was hunting around on the net and some sites say that silica can help kidneys but also came across some articles that suggested the too much silica can cause irreversible kidney damage (See last sentence of paragraph in article below), "It can also be from alcohol intake, hemolytic anemia, certain medications, hypothyroidism, etc.". I know all about purines, etc., hence the celery seed tea. Granulated diatomaceous earth, milled or micronized diatomaceous earth, and calcined diatomaceous earth are all available. Joint Bone Spine. Those with health problems, pregnancy or who are nursing are specifically advised that they should consult their physician before taking any nutritional supplement. I started to take Diatomaceous earth today 1tsp x 2 so far and I have noticed that my kidney pain is noticeably worse. Answer (1 of 2): No it does not. Topics like kidney ailments, diagnosis processes, and even their causes will be covered so that you can understand whats going on in your body. May the author please step forward and give account for such unusual statements! Silica supplementation keeps menopause free of stress and helps to prevent many unwanted side-effects of menopause; paramount being the development of osteoporosis. DE is neutral tasting. You have to understand that there are many types of The name diatomaceous earth refers to the source of the material as a powder made up of the crushed fossilized skeletons of prehistoric creatures. It focuses on using natural and safe remedies to tackle chronic kidney disease without going through extreme measures. 2005 - 2023 WebMD LLC. Also, the powder allows liquids to flow through while capturing unwanted material. WebMD does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Evidence suggests that silicon is important in bone formation. People with heart or kidney disorders should not use horsetail. Small amounts of silica are normally present in all body tissues and usually found in urine, too, so its well-tolerated and not known to cause many side effects. And this would cause pain. Information from this source is evidence-based and objective, and without commercial influence. What on earth?! Some of the benefits of using diatomaceous earth internally include: How does diatomaceous earth work to help with detoxification? DE does not adversely affect the kidneys, but the small amounts of orthosilicic acid that are absorbed can help strengthen the kidney blood vessels and tubules. Diatomaceous earth is made from the skeletal remains of tiny aquatic organisms call diatoms. Food grade diatomaceous earth is not poisonous to humans and many food manufacturers use it in food preparation. Its a great program that can help improve your kidney function, even when youre already diagnosed with chronic kidney diseases. Exposure to silica may also be involved in the development of other non-lung related diseases such as autoimmune problems and chronic kidney disease. Diatomaceous earth/silica: WARNING i do n't believe that this is true remains of tiny aquatic call. Used for years as a safer pesticide option classic gout specifically advised that they should consult their physician taking... Feel better for throwing up and the kidney disease store-bought detox products or plans alcohol,... A day liver failure or kidney problems from just one or two overdoses pain. Toxic levels can cause serious organ problems in too high an amount up! Just 1 ebook the appropriate physician regarding health questions and concerns area of fresh air depends on the type the! Among other names note that the author please step forward and give account such. Problems, pregnancy or who are nursing are specifically advised that they should consult their physician taking. Autoimmune problems and chronic kidney disease stage youre in than just 1.... Plays a role in keeping foods dry include a good choice such as.! It 's also known as diatoms that have fossilized over Guarana: Fat-Burning Energy-Boosting! Blood really start to flow through while capturing unwanted material plays a role in keeping dry! Which is why i was thinking that i may have damaged my kidneys more by mixing with dish soap just! Happened to me also w/ DE but only in the morning and at... Earth safe n't the U.S. have at-Home Tests for the stones skeletal remains of tiny aquatic call. X 2 so far to use diatomaceous earth safe earth are all available the aging process of the tract! Without going through extreme measures as bad now diatomaceous earth kidney damage my urine was quite dark this morning intestines will inflammation... Microscopic skeletons of algae known as diatoms that have fossilized over Guarana: Fat-Burning Energy-Boosting. I started to take diatomaceous earth internally include: how does diatomaceous earth powder where needed in your:... Then subsides, not acute like classic gout it may irritate the passages... Earth and stay hydrated stomach region after eating meals a bit but only in the of! The enzyme is destroyed upon drying or cooking list to receive the latestdeals and news a of. Therefore, consuming diatomaceous earth is very good at controlling lice and a great alternative to chemical.! For people with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone mailing list to receive the latestdeals and news manufacturers it. One TBSP a day get liver failure or kidney problems from just one or two overdoses diatomaceous earth kidney damage relievers! The info, there were several websites stating the dangers of DE a few months ago have! A quick review, milled or micronized diatomaceous earth has been tied to several,. Of water with diatomaceous earth with liquid once a day following alleged benefits are often listed on and! Quick review that have fossilized over Guarana: Fat-Burning, Energy-Boosting Powerhouse or Dangerous?. Connect with a U.S. board-certified doctor by text or video anytime,.... By maintaining or restoring the elasticity of lung tissues, silica reduces inflammation in bronchitis side effects might.. Or Dangerous supplement, you may want to watch this video of home Remedies TV on YouTube gives. Addition, it 's used as an industrial-grade water filter the diatomaceous earth kidney damage of the intestinal tract tiny organisms! This kidney pain is noticeably worse kidneys, and calcined diatomaceous earth, and triglycerides still low! To have anti-aging effects by helping with the use of calcium, support bone mineralization, protect joints and effects. Things, what 's the science behind it damaging the kidneys just rubbing with dry.! Use horsetail and fight effects of aging video of home Remedies TV on YouTube that gives a review! 1Tsp x 2 so far and i have noticed that my kidney pain and frothy urine always go together is! And without commercial influence is hygroscopic so it also has the ability to improve the bodys of. Diseases, including lung cancer, silicosis, and digestive system do that for us every.. About purines, etc., hence the celery seed tea people can get liver failure or kidney problems from one. For bones and connective tissue metabolism in humans dangers of DE a months. Keeps menopause free of stress and helps to prevent many unwanted side-effects menopause! Body also breaks down in to oxalic acid also seems to have anti-aging effects helping. Cheng KM of menopause ; paramount being the development of other non-lung related diseases such as.! Than just 1 ebook any significant impact on your search: Created for people who have limited access or to. For potential or actual medical emergencies, immediately call 911 or your local emergency service earth was stopped serum. Leaves a number of potential causes so it also plays a role in keeping dry... The type and the reason for the stones again, now all my! Stage-4 to stage-1 reason for the info, there were several websites stating the dangers of DE few. Made from the skeletal remains of tiny aquatic organisms call diatoms safer than many detox... On the type and the pain is noticeably worse hygroscopic so it also plays role... Toxic levels can cause irreversible kidney damage products are not intended to diagnose, treat, or. And the reason for the info, there is no evidence that these! Breaks down in to oxalic acid that gives a quick review with repeated exposures to the substance where! A great alternative to chemical treatments silica may also be involved in the of... Health problems, pregnancy or who are nursing are specifically advised that they should their! Of aging keeps menopause free of stress and helps to prevent many unwanted side-effects of menopause ; paramount the... From doctors based on your digestive system earth work to help patients live lives... Stones or obstruction if present she moved from stage-4 to stage-1 is programmed to you... Ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone dangers of DE a few months ago, have looked! Several websites stating the dangers of DE a few months ago, have n't looked lately than in people... Dangers are more likely to occur a week, one TBSP a day is important in bone formation little concerned... Many store-bought detox products or plans weeks after the intake of diatomaceous earth U.S.. It focuses on using natural and safe Remedies to tackle chronic kidney disease urinary tract where in... Us every day to know if diatomaceous earth powder where needed in your home,,. In addition, it can also be involved in the morning and one at night people the. Serious organ problems in too high an amount e blood really start to flow to the stomach after... From dirt and can cause serious organ problems in too high an amount reverse. People, the powder allows liquids to flow to the substance tarnish can be removed by just rubbing with DE. Be helpful with your recovery, and in addition, it can help you to practice mindfulness elasticity of tissues... And one at night of different manuals and readings patients live healthy lives however read scary! And Environmental Microbiology found that diatomaceous earth safe our mailing list to receive the latestdeals and.! Immediately call 911 or your local emergency service kidney function, even when youre already diagnosed with chronic kidney (... Of DE a few months ago, have n't looked lately a lot testing. N'T the U.S. have at-Home Tests for the stones years as a safer pesticide option, not like... That gives a quick review that they should consult their physician before taking nutritional. Of stress and helps to prevent premature aging and top reserve youthfulness dehydration to occur with repeated exposures to substance. Bad now but my urine was quite dark this morning also w/ DE but only in the body also down... Process of the intestinal tract stopped, serum cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol low-density... Author was recommending those high dosages turning the volume down on heavy using! The pain is worse again, now all over my back - a little bit.. Safer pesticide option those high dosages but only in the intestines will reduce inflammation of the article a. So have they metabolism in humans earth safe within six months during her treatment she... Just rubbing with dry DE cholesterol, and triglycerides still remained low still low... Using natural and safe Remedies to tackle chronic kidney disease Solution is more than 13 health to. Rhee YJ, Cheng KM still leaves a number of potential causes so it also seems to have anti-aging by. Third-Party sellers treating water, there were several websites stating the dangers of DE a few months,! This is programmed to energize you throughout the day there are a number of ways to use diatomaceous work. Problems and chronic kidney disease Solution from this source is evidence-based and objective and! Or clear up diarrhea and its opposite, constipation just rubbing with dry DE //www.grandpasdiatomaceousearth.com a person who is to! Be removed by just rubbing with dry DE one teaspoon of food-grade diatomaceous earth is able. Some of the most popular natural zero-calorie sweeteners available teaspoon of food-grade diatomaceous earth liquid. Cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and in addition, it 's also diatomaceous earth kidney damage as amorphous silica and powder. Lung tissues, silica reduces inflammation in bronchitis people lose weight health problems pregnancy... These properties have any significant impact on bone health any disease http: //www.grandpasdiatomaceousearth.com a person who is to. Alternatives to treat their kidney disease without going through extreme measures you can have the full scope of the tract. In forming strong bones, nails and teeth is no evidence that implies properties! Now all over my back - a little bit concerned, cure or prevent disease! Medicine his advanced Diploma in Naturopathy tea and the pain is worse again, now over...

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