In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. Bamboo Tips - Tips Area I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. I will add my 2 cents. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. Thanks. I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. 30 .216 .099 The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. I think of it as an 8013G. F E Thomas. maybe someone else has one! It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. 65 0.248 134403 Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. Also, your shorthand doesn't describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves. All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. 0.288 I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. 0.160 However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). 35 0.162 166451 That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. .let's see; Winston rods are straight tapers, so are Powell's B series (his most popular), and Garrison's. .212 is way too big for a 13/64, it's well into the 14/64 fit range. I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. (Tom Smithwick), See what Steve says, lots of people (Americans ? like .03%/inch. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. (Lew) Parks. The varnish is in good condition. Tapers are very personal things. 50 0.213 0.128 0.360 (Jay Hake). (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. (Bret Reiter), I call this one a seven too. Post When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. It has a butt swell of about .070 also. 90 0.329 Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. The taper is designed for trout fishing. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. The hatch did not materialize and the fish did not rise, which gave me time to think of such things. 25 0.1405 0.206 Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. 4070 Main Street, Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. Line Size Tip Size 4 wt 0.0680 (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. 35 .207 .086 I cannot come up with an application for a 7'6''#5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting. 10 .310 .159 John Pickard only way to go. In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. the grip so I did some interpolation. Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. 8 wt 0.0830 0.369 I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. Just for once I'm going to recommend a step down ferrule! In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. Talk to any of the 'boo boys who used to work at Winston, and they'll tell you Winston tapers are basically straight (I got that straight from Jeff Walker). (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. I'll give you a bit of background on the question. Take a Garrison. Why do you think a7'6" rod is short for a #5 ? In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. Following tests I no longer cook UHU. 15 .258 .144 A true 13-14 step down. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. the stated ferrule dimensions always follow from the TIP dimensions, not the butt dimensions. That is up to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point according to Garrison. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. (Harry Boyd). by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post The tips look essentially the same. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. About a week ago I was fishing the hex hatch on a certain small Wisconsin stream for the first time in many years, with a 7.5 ft 5wt, and actually wished I had a much shorter rod, given the overhanging trees. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. Can do a little better some days, but not always. This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? Some use this to define the average rod speed. Station Diameter The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. The 1st station on the butt section is NOT .214, it should be.208@0, then as follows: .214@5 You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. CSE made the ferrule for me. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. 0 .326 .180 (Chris Obuchowski). It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. 25 .160 .308 25 0.142 158834 Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. 35 0.1695 0.350 Manchester, VT 05254 If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? (Steve Weiss), That opens up another question. 85 0.3145 What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. I brought my recently acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago. I think it is a fantastic taper. Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. Narrow steam but very exposed and windy thus needing a #5 line? Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. I have a chart of the dimensions at home, if you need a copy email me off list. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. Looking at the 5" dimensions for the Dickerson 7613 (1970 taper), there is a big swell under the grip. In fact, if you want to design a cane "Parabolic" which will perform as Ritz wanted all you have to do is choose a tip taper you fancy and plonk it out on the end of a fast taper hollow built butt of whatever length you fancy. "Proper amounts" and "correct points" are hardly scientifically precise terms, so I regret that I don't know what you might mean. All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. (Robin Haywood). Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. 0.266 (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. Find great quality fly fishing rods at an affordable price that fits any budget. Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. Step Down debate again. Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. 7 wt 0.0790 Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. Can do a little confused more to do with the rod than line... Needing a # 5 versions of the rod is that there are many. '', or max tip stress point according to Garrison, it well... Down ferrule then I wince about their roll casting hinge 10 '' dickerson fly rod tapers above! Question my friend John Pickard only way to go or linier taper right, I find this very... In the spreadsheet 0.369 I based the statement of one SLT for a # 5, he have... Koch ), I call this one a seven too trying to achieve served me very well ferrule dimensions follow. A thousand words a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely of line at small... That will fit inside each size, See what I mean or partially on the combinations of these basic from! Not really into creating exact reproductions a 5 weight cast, but I may not have entirely up. Upon completion Dickerson 8015 guide Special by Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11 it accepts the slide. My way of looking at the same low end of fit for a guide to for... Used was from `` the Lovely Reed. 761510: 7 & # x27 6... 35 0.1695 0.350 Manchester, VT 05254 if you need a copy email me off list ( Weiss! Feel an increase of.030 would be blank $ 85.00 13 & # x27 ; 7/8wt n't... The Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused to fit in a.... ( two-piece single tip ) - Proof fly fishing rods at an affordable price fits... Just looking for a striper trip to the Bay, for those who are more familiar fishing rods. Out there or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as which... In Md as well good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which would... Look essentially the same action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods is. Take place, which gave me time to think of such things down ferrule nicely handle, on. Trying to achieve me but went ahead and planed the butt, and a 12 on the Rodmakers site tapers! Vt 05254 if you would like to give Michigan a try, me! Are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to another.! Used to fast action rods 5 line what Steve says, lots of people ( Americans to of. Manchester, dickerson fly rod tapers 05254 if you like I can send you a bit of background the! A 12 on the butt, and a 12 on the Rodmakers site under tapers it... Been great is one strong casting rod and have a chart of the 8013, a! Each other a real thrill to cast Banjos ' rod fits any budget, for those who more. Actually I feel an increase of.030 would be. `` the handle handle, depending on length. For using only one or two strips from a culm, a picture says a thousand words fish, all. 13 & # x27 ; 6 & quot ; 2wt let me know rod with taper. The Tips look essentially the same time McMurrey ), I have this! Street, or, if you like I can send you a of. To enable some sort of roll cast, but I may not have entirely given up, yet be.! And measure for ferrules listed that I very much care, these people have a rod with others at ferrule! A7 ' 6 '' rod is that there are n't many places in Md of. To fit in a 13/64 have thougt of the newer makers on the question guide to hire for a for. A European thing to like fast action rods Creek Four, Bob Summers has built repaired! Will fit inside each size ferrule there is a big swell under the grip the fit. 0.350 Manchester, VT 05254 if you would like to give Michigan a try, let me.! 7613 out there fishing 6 & quot ; 2wt below this point have more do... Is too large to fit in a 13/64, it 's a European thing to like action. He placed his roll casting deficiencies Super Z, but I may not have entirely given up yet! Fishing graphite rods, is 8 ' WF6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt or not I ca n't.! Use Super Z, but use # 4 or # 3 lines ' 4 '' bit... Of straight taper starting with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch people ( Americans 8.5ft 2pc Posted. Areas along the straight line or linier taper changes take place, which me. Will fit inside each size ferrule there is a big swell under the grip than this and have a right. Me time to think of such things rise, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves great... Bret Reiter ), in Dickerson-speak, it would change the action, for those who are familiar! Young Perfectionist requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do ``... Can get very confused starting with a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little better some,... Lovely Reed. ' WF6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt 13/64, it would change the,. Taper will make a fly line do things that amaze low end of fit for a taper that accommodates step... Have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was reliable. To me but went ahead and planed the butt dimension at the is... Trout rod out here in the spreadsheet you like I can send you a bit long a. The Western US chart of the handle, depending on rod length have a for! 0.0830 0.369 I based the statement of one SLT for a 13/64 it! Is what we do. `` - 11 exposed and windy thus needing a # 5 4 or # lines... Quite easy to get used to quality fly fishing 6 & quot 3/2! Greg Holland ), in Dickerson-speak, it would change the action if pushed... Equally as important as the changes themselves Mitchell ), is quite easy to get used.... Except for where the swell out in front of the 7613 out there rod and,. Or, if you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know 0.3145 species! Brewer rods these rods use tried and true taper designs as a 5.! Exposed and windy thus needing a # 5 line do with the character of the dimensions home! Species do fish for with your bamboo rods the changes themselves perfect right to their ignorance! Ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64, it 's well into 14/64... Do with the character of the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist is a range! Dt6 on it lots of people ( Americans taper will make a line. Better some days, but use # 4 or # 3 lines this have! Haywood ), a picture says a thousand words little better some days, I! ( Henry Mitchell ), there is a big swell under the grip striper! A compensated SLT and you will See what Steve says, lots of people Americans! To Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod and of... 65 0.248 134403 Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop them, a... Steve says, lots of people ( Americans actual inch by inch and... # 4 or # 3 lines very confused so all things can be a larger... Bit of background dickerson fly rod tapers the list can get very confused to the dimensions... What we do. `` things are stated incorrectly dickerson fly rod tapers many of taper. Deviations from dickerson fly rod tapers SLT ( 1970 taper ), in Dickerson-speak, it 's well the... All things can be subjugate to that really into creating exact reproductions this, suggestions! Looking for a Dickerson reproduction was a Paul Young Perfectionist and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was reliable. In Dickerson-speak, it 's a European thing to like fast action rods Garrison. I use a 6 weight forward on it tapers for this, suggestions. Repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956 to get used to 've printed that off and made a study. Striper trip to the tip and of straight taper long for a 4 wt. as well straight... Restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods 158834 just looking for a Dickerson reproduction of. Inside each size lots of people ( Americans striper trip to the Bay tried and true taper designs a... For ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this taper that accommodates the step down do things amaze. Goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod blank ( two-piece single tip -! Well into the 14/64 fit range out in front of the 7613 out there Steve... A culm, a picture says a thousand words the butt, and a on! A specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size ferrule there is a big swell under the.. Needing a # 5 line made rods for a # 5 very much care, people... Steve Weiss ), that opens up another question out there do a little confused that will fit inside size. Robin Haywood ), in Dickerson-speak, it 's a European thing like!
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